A guest piece by “David,” originally posted on the Plain and Modest Dress Yahoo Group.
From: “mquadd” <mquadd@y…>
Date: Wed Jul 21, 2004
Subject: Introduction and questions
Hi. My name is David and I attend but am not a member of the Friends Meeting here. I was actually raised as an Episcopalian although I had several uncles who were birth-right Quakers. I grew up (for my first 10 years) in Chester County, PA which traditionally was an area with a high concentration of Quakers. I would expect that this is no longer true as the area has become quite suburban with a big influx of new residents. Nonetheless, I grew up attending meeting now and then with relatives at various meetings in Chester County and northern Deleware. That was in the 1960s and was a time when some people, mostly older people (people most likely born in the 1800s meaning these people were in their 70s or 80s in the 1960s), still used plain talk. Even in the 1960s, in a fairly rural area, this was more of an excepting than the rule and was limited to the oldest members of the meeting and never used outside the Quaker community. Those who used plain talk never used it outside of the Quaker community – home, Friends, and meeting. As far as I know, they never used this type of talk for business or relations or outside the community.
At age 10 we moved to Lancaster County. At that time, many Memmonites who now no longer dress plain or wear coverings did still did both of these. I went to school with many Mennonite kids. In addition I became friends with several Old Order Amish families (and one Beachy family) with whom I am still friends. That was 35 years ago, I have witnessed the plain testimony weaken in each of these groups including the Old Order Amish. I actually spent much of my childhood and teenage years hanging out with one paticular Old Order Amish family as way to escape the insanity of having drug addicted and alcoholic parents. In their very simple and unstated Christianity, they were very willing to provide food, shelter, and love to a very confused boy (me).
Anyway, the Lancaster Conference Mennonites (now part of the largest Mennonite group) seem to be totally mainstream. Perhaps there are some who still follow the former order. The Beachy Amish now dress like conservative Mennonites and less and less like Amish. Finally, I was watched the Amish allow lots of modern changes in their discipline although their basic clothing is pretty much unchanged but sun glasses are now allowed and many Amish girls and women pluck their eyebrows – both not allowed in the 1970s. By the way, in the late 1960s they had already adopted cotton-poly blends for both clothing and quilts!
The reason for that, perhaps odd, biographical sketch is to give some background on my exposure to plain groups and, more importantly, plain thought. I have toyed with the idea of plain dressing although I can’t give a clear reason why I feel this. Is it a calling or am I just crazy? I do know that the stability I found in that Amish house in the 1970s most likely had a giant influence on me (a happy Amish family where I had fun vs. living in a family that was in the self-distruct mode due to addiction). I also I have clear memories of having Quaker teachers in elemently school and vanity and worldliness was a bad thing. It was during the height of the Viet Nam war, so there was this odd hippy-Quaker thing going on with some of my teachers. I am sure some of you who were around the RSF in the 1960s can relate. So here I am still toying with these ideas and still attempting to define my own religious feelings at the middle of my life (I am 45).
Here are a few things I do know that apply to me. First, I feel very at odds with our society that focuses on the most superfical things. Our society spends BILLIONS on make-up, hair dye, plastic surgery, breast inplants, push-up bras, designer clothes (that are no different that basic clothes except the label and might even be of lower quality).… People are judged on the these issues. Character and morality (a loaded term that seems to have been highjacked by the rightwing and ultraconservatives)seems to be secondary to these very superficial things. What we tell ourselves and our children is that we are not adequate as we are. We have to change our body and then drape it was overly priced clothes to count. The outside is more important that the inside. This is sick. It is distructive. It is a sin.
Beyond that, my feelings about plain dressing get less clear. Is a uniform what I am seeking? Those groups who were very uniform clothing tend to be insular and often attact as much attention to themselves as a belly shirt and designer jeans! If you doubt this, go to Lancaster County and attempt to drive on Rt. 340. The attraction that the plain people attract in that area rivals any movie star or rock concert. Lancaster gets literally millions of tourists each year. So is that type of uniform dressing that is quite distinct serving a good purpose? I am not sure but am just offering a question rather than a judgement. Other groups that dress quite plain such as ultra-orthodox Jews are not so much a tourist attraction but clearly are insular and seperate from the larger society. Many people view this as being “stand off-ish” which I hope is nobody’s goal. I have heard people apply this type of judgement to plain christian groups also.
So, I would be very interested in hearing what drives others to dress plain? If you are a Quaker, what has been the reaction at your meeting? I once met a plain dressing Quaker who said that he had received more negative than positive reactions when visiting other meetings. Are there any meetings where all or most members dress plain? In my childhood experiences, there was no plain dressing in any Quaker meetings in Chester County or in Deleware. I have not even run into anyone who uses plain language for over 30 years except that one plain dressing man. Clearly, I know no Quakers who have been raised with the idea of plain dressing or plain language including some of my cousins who are worldly to say the least. What makes plain. I know of “black bumper Mennonites” who drive a black bumper Mercedes. Is that plain? Why is a Volvo often considered ok but a BMW is bad? They both cost $40K. Often I see this type of thinking in those who claim to follow a less than worldly life style. I think there is always a risk of falling into the mindset of some labels being good and others being bad. Once a particular brand, say a type of hat or type of jeans, is thought to be the proper “plain uniform” does that not become the designed clothing of the plain dressers? I am not sure. What I find is that once you jump into this topic, it becomes complicated and that is not the point.
One final question, what benefits do you recieve from plain dressing?
Thanks. David
That was my concern with strict, plain dress. It takes away from the whole simplicity testimony, I think, and is not modest, because it draws attention to you. Orthodox women I know believe that, that if they wear a snood instead of a wig, it is not modest if they go out of their neighborhood, because the snood draws attention — and that is not modest.
Plain dress is good for its simplicity, but once, I think, it gets so outrageous you get stares, you may have gone to far.
It’s something I’m still thinking about.
you should realy think about putting pictures on your web site!!!!!! >:-/
I dress plain, very plain. I have never been the focus of attention because I dress plainly in a way that fits in. Examble: During the cold winter I wear simple tailored long sleeved dresses in a wool blend of a solid color, slightly below the calf, with black tights and flat well kept loafers or pumps, with no bling of any kind. I work in a law office. My hair is always pulled back into a neat bun, and I do wear colorless lip gloss and keep my brows neat. Good grooming is not counter to plainess. In the warmer weather I wear solid color shifts with a gauzy elbow lenth t shirt underneath or a solid color very plain shift type dress with quarter length sleeves in a summer fabric that has a bit of integrity. One does not have to go about in flour sack type prairie dresses to be plain. All of my dresses have invisible zippers. I do not use buttons in any form as I like to honor those who are gone and eschewed buttons as at that time they were usually expensive and decorative. I also don’t loose a minute of this good life over missing buttons.
Being plain has been noticed, but very rarily. It usually takes the form of being asked why I don’t wear a wedding ring, even though I am married. I can explain in two small sentinces and everyone gets it.
When one is not concerned about picking out clothing from the excessive plethora of mostly idiotic and vulgar design, one has a lot more time for issues that are of useful importance, such as fundraising for worthy causes, which is my case, and being on useful committees. Dignity is another nice benefit of dressing plainly, along with respect.
In response to Ann Marie’s post above:
I am a plain-dressing Quaker. I wear the full regalia: dress, kerchief, cap, bonnet, and I wear it because I believe God has asked me to, for what reason I really cannot venture, but not, I think, because it is simple or because it is modest, though in my experience it is both.
The entry confused me because it offers first that plain dress “takes away” from the “whole simplicity testimony.” And then it states that it is “good for its simplicity.” I think it is fairly obvious that plain dress is considerably simpler than fashionable dress. And I also believe quite firmly that it is modest.
If by “immodest” one can mean “attract unwanted attention,” I haven’t experienced that. Women are usually politely curious, and make all sorts of flattering assumptions about my quilting and baking skills, and it is only women I am approached by in public. The only thing I have found with men in public is that they are fairly likely to open doors for me, but they keep a respectful distance and do not engage me in conversation. The only time I ever felt uncomfortable was when an Amish man stared at me, and stared at me hard. I think he stared because he was trying to figure out what I was … obviously not Amish, but obviously plain.
If by immodest one means “trying to attract the sexual attention of the male sex” (who has ever described a man as immodest?), which I think is the most applicable definition of the word in this situation, I can say plain dress is not even sexually attractive to (most) men, much less sexy. I don’t think simply attracting attention can be described accurately with the word “immodest,” though I am aware that this is the basis of Orthodox women wearing wigs rather than some other sort of covering. If we follow the logic that attracting attention is immodest, then women speaking in public becomes immodest as does simply being particularly beautiful or particularly ugly. This is the logic, I think, that leads to burqas …
Plain dress does attract attention, but it is also a powerful form of Quaker witness, and a silent one at that. I think it is for this witnessing that God has asked me to plain dress, but I don’t require a reason, as long as I am being obedient to God’s will.
My only problem with someone wearing plain dress would be if it became an “empty form” which was not based on a leading from God, if it were not an expression of Truth. How to test that is the challenge, as testing all leadings is a challenge.
I came from a typical American background. Religion was never stressed in my household growing up. Although both sets of my grandparents were both very involved in their church’s. One of my grandpa’s is a Baptist preacher. I took it upon myself to seek the word of God and have been doing so since I was about twelve. My extended family all live in Ohio near Holmes County so I was exposed to the Amish and Mennonite way of living while I visited during the summers. I was intrigued and read as much as I could on their beliefs and practices. I have always wondered what exactly should be appropriate dress for people who are Christians. It seems that most churches of various denominations concentrate on many things that affect the soul and preach about how modest Christians should conduct themselves, but in the area of dress, it seems that people are not interested. Yet, many people complain about the lack of respectful clothing is being made popular and available to adults as well as children. I believe that the way people dress is a direct reflection on thier values just as the eyes are the window to the soul. I am comforted to find others that are concerned and are at least looking for answeres.
I am interested to learn more about Beach Amish people. Can anyone help me locate their church with an address or a phone number in Philadelphia/Lancaster area?
Thanks.
Siddiqui
Hey Martin — it’s Petey from FGC. I have an interesting insight on this topic, being that I work for a major clothing retailor which I cannot name. If we spend so much time trying to dress simply, is it really simple any more, or is it just as complicated as before?
Simplicity, in my mind is a comprehensive thing — I don’t dress flashy because that’s not quaker style, but I also don’t go around spending a lot of time looking for the cheapest clothes possible, when I know my time, as a resource could be put to better use elsewhere besides deciding what I need to wear. In the process I may end up buying some questionable clothes — not knowingly, but still…
with the time I’ve gained by not thining so much about one aspect of how to live simple I’ve gained time to focus on other aspects, and live a more balacned life — a life that focuss not so much on what i’m wearing, but what I can do for other people.
I work with clothes all the time, I don’t mind shopping — it can be fun to see new clothes, but if I spend so much time thinking about what I’m going to wear I start to feel self-centered and that isn’t the kind of centered that I like to feel. Just my two thoughts.
Hi Petey, Good to hear from you, thanks for posting. I liked what you said about feeling self-centered when you spend too much time thinking about what to wear. I totally relate to that. But you know, plain dressing doesn’t need to be complicated. I spend a lot less time shopping for clothing than I did before I started plain dressing. It’s not about focusing on yourself, it’s about getting off yourself. It’s not asking what you want to wear but on what God might want you to wear. How do you adorn the creation and pay tribute to the creator?
We shouldn’t choose plain clothes to try to impress anyone, but we then we probably shouldn’t choose worldly clothes trying to impress anyone. How many of the products of the major clothing retailer you work for are really practical, simple, modest and affirm that one’s worth is not based on one’s outside appearance? (I know it’s just a job, but still, the current fashion/clothing industry’s overzealousness is one of the best secular rationales for contemporary plain dress I know of.
yeah.…this is a weird website and I am kind of freaked out at the moment. Why are you guys pretending to be Quakers! Ok…so bye
It’s not asking what you want to wear but on what God might want you to wear. How do you adorn the creation and pay tribute to the creator?
Martin, I’ve taken a few steps towards plain dress, and am considering further ones, but I must say this rubbed me the wrong way. I think you are right to put the focus on what God would have us wear, and seeking to honor him/her in our clothing, but it sounds like you’re suggeseting that non-plain dress doesn’t do that. I think generally, it doesn’t, but I do know of several people who put a lot of energy into their clothing, not (it doesn’t seem) as a vain exercise, and wear the most fantastic, colorful, fun outfits that make almost everyone they pass smile. People like that seem to be adorning creation and paying tribute to God at least as much as plain dressers are.
Hi Zach,
Well sure, plain dress isn’t a particular style, color, etc. It’s a attitude toward clothing. I have certainly worn a lot of silly outfits in my day and think that was certainly an early manifestation of my current gray-flavored style. The current form of my plainness is influenced by having taken on the yoke of being a public Friend and a Friend who is at easy wrestling with our faith tradition (as Lloyd Lee Wilson describes in his new book).
For me, the point is that I neither need to hide nor further adorn the beauty with which God made me. Clothes should be for warmth and health and practicality. This is a simple standard for me.
Hi Martin,
I met you and [Julie] at FGC in LLW’s workshop. I have been living in plain dress for a little over a year, and I have lots of observations to share. For me, it was a three year leading that I finally could no longer deny. It has been quite a journey. I am in the process of writing about it now, and will be in touch soon. Blessings to all.
Diann
Hi
I’m new here. I have been sort of surfing around looking for a discussion of “plain dress” and, while there’s a lot here, havent’ really found what I wanted to. David seems to have asked something like the question I wanted to ask, but it doesnt’ seem to have elicited answers as I would have hoped.
I find myself drawn to plain dress from a different angle than I perceive from most. I have no interest in modesty and would consider nudity as an interesting form of “simple dress”.
As a lesbian and a trans ally and a woman who most often buys from the men’s department, I also have concerns about the gendered implications of plain dress as it seems most often espoused.
That said, I have concerns about fair trade issues ‑which loom large in most clothing decisions. I believe in not giving power to “labels” and cringe and the fashion and expense (as well as the waste and exploitation) of Hilfiger, Abercrombie, etc.
Ann Marie’s concern about “modesty” resonates with me. Plain dress initially was simply a simpler version of the going style (was it not? I am not versed in this) — I tend to think the modern equivalent would be no-name jeans & t‑shirts, not bonnets & such.
Modern plain dress seems to involve a LOT of thought about what one wears (though I admire the idea of having only a few sets of clothes, and never havigng to “choose what to wear” in the morning) — evidenced to me by the existence of websites and yahoo groups about the topic.
I worry that it involves a sense of seeing oneself as “better than”, and also a sort of vanity
To me I believe it would be an “empty form” — Maybe that is my problem — so that I have trouble seeing the leading that lies behind it for others.
So, I guess my questions are:
— It has been mentioned that it is a form of “witness” — what does this mean? “looking quaker”? — Is there a hope that people will ask us about it? will learn something from seeing us dressed differently? Behind this lies the assumption that drawing attention to ourselves is a “good” — something that seems in conflict with “modesty”. The assumption is that it’s not about that person “thinking we’re cool” — what, then, is it about?
— What other concerns go into it? I dress pretty much exclusively from thrift stores, thereby bypassing concerns about exploited labor (except the workers at the thrift stores), resource use, etc. This is important to me. I would be reluctant to buy new clothes, or even fabric, because of these concerns.
— The simplicity of it is what really appeals to me — the vision of having 3 or 4 outfits in my closet and wearing the same thing every day. I really like colors, and I somewhat like shopping. I am reluctant to give up either (and with color, I feel no indication that God doesnt’ like color as much as I do. I doubt I would ever feel led to give it up!) (I dont’ know that that’s a question!)
— So, can anyone give a short list of what the “benefits” have been? How has it changed your worldview? your life? what does the leading feel like, and what does it consist of?
— MINISTRY — that word keeps coming back to me. It seems that numerous folks think it is a “powerful ministry” — and the sense of what that means eludes me almost completely. What are you saying through plain dress? (or what do you hope you’re saying?) My first thought was that it would set you apart as a pacifist (are all plain-dressers pacifists? it seems so to me right now) in a time of war, but so would a t‑shirt or bumper stickers. I am really yearning to understand this point. Maybe it’s simply about waiting, but if anyone has anything they could share, I would be grateful.
I live near a large Mennonite community in Oklahoma, and frequently see a type of plain-dressers (Mennonite or other) at our local Wal-Mart. The ladies wear long denim skirts with tennis shoes, long-sleeved shirts, and have long hair drawn up in a bun — younger girls wear their hair down. I can’t recall the men — maybe they don’t stand out as much, or don’t do the shopping! But as for these plainly dressed women and their daughters, they are Practical (denim, tennis shoes), Modest (long skirts, disregard for ‘fashion’), and Feminine (long hair, skirts). Neither do they wear jewelry, barrettes, braids, nor (I think) makeup. This is the plain dress that I admire, for its modern sensibility above all else. The online prairie dresses and old-style boots are very expensive. I am personally drawn to modest, feminine, practical clothing for how it encourages me to conduct myself. To me, it’s not so much about looking different as it is shamelessly living by those ideals.
I’m not even a Christian, but neverthless, I’ve taken interest to plain dress (which no one in my country really practices). My wardrobe already looks quite plain, and I’m planning to go further still. I’ve been thinking these matters a lot and am sharing my thoughts in hopes that you will find them helpful.
Most important things in plainness to me are freedom and peace of mind . A “normal” modern way is to think excessively of one’s outward appearance. When one makes a conscious reason not to care of all the things that media tells her to care of, it will soon become obvious that she has great resources to redirect to some better activity. When I think of how I look, my thoughts are distracted. Plainness means to me freeing myself of need to think my appearance excessively.
I agree with those who say that outward appearance reflects what is inside. What we wear is always a message that we send to others, and it always effects in some way on how we are evaluated. Today’s fashion emphasizes sexuality, “boldness” and financial success. All these are things that I oppose. Instead, I wish my dress to proclaim that my values are different: dignity, love for wisdom, self-respect and importance of inner beauty. It has become very clear to me, that if I wish to express these qualities, I must go plainer.
I don’t believe that we can approach this questions by making lists of “good” and “bad” clothes. The matter is just not that simple. Instead, I believe that we are better off if we ask ourselves when making decisions “Does this piece of clothing reflect the values that I want to promote in my life?” “Does wearing this garment support or distract me in my effort to became a better person?”. When we put questions this way, we see that the real issue isn’t whether we should buy a Volvo or BMW. If motive for our wanting an expensive car is, that such a car is necessary in performing our duties and it isn’t conflicting our values, then it’s all ok to buy a good, expensive car. But, if we could really do with a less flamboyant car ‑that is, if our true motivation for wanting an expensive car isn’t need but our love of luxury or pride- then our buying that car isn’t good.
So, what’s plain dressing to me at the moment.
‑Style: A modest style that doesn’t draw attention to my body or doesn’t appear as sexual is what I’m after.
‑Color: Bright colors and patterns draw attention- that of others naturally, but I have also noticed that I’m more aware of my appearance if I wear bright colors. So, my wardrobe consists mainly of whites, blacks, browns and grays.
‑Practicality: Practicality means, that I seek to fulfill my clothing needs simply and buying new clothes when I really need them, not just because fashion has changed. So far I’ve bought all my clothing, but I’m planning to learn to sew.
‑Quality: If a piece of clothing fits to my other standards and is a quality item, I may buy it. I don’t admire cheap stuff that is badly made from fabrics that don’t last. I try to be a considering shopper and buy clothes that have such quality that I can expect to wear them a long time.
‑Simplicity: I find that besides colors, also patterns, cuts and ornaments can make a cloth not suitable for my needs. Also excessive use of jewelry goes in here. I appreciate beauty and have no objection for wearing jewelry in general- but I’m against “fashion jewelry”- jewelry that is meant for decoration only and has no “meaning” besides giving temporary pleasure to wearer.
I wear my hair long and bunned- also because simplicity. A long hair needs less caring than a short hair, and a bun is neat and simple style, that doesn’t conform with beauty standards made by salon industry.
I wonder, has anyone expressed the thought that a more genuine translation of traditional Quaker “plain dress” might be cheap and serviceable ordinary clothes from the local thrift shop? I’ve been getting most of my clothes that way since, well, since my Jewish Dad first took me to the Goodwill as a little tyke. It never would have occurred me to call it “plain dress.” For the past couple years I’ve been shaving my head in the bathroom with a barber clipper and a 3/4‑inch attachment. My reasoning was, I don’t want to pay for haircuts or shampoo any more. I’m cheap and lazy.
My testimony is, cheap and lazy deserves more respect than it gets.
I have wondered about plain dress for years now. I am returning to the Quaker way of life, as it is a family faith going back to Barnstable, MA in 1623 for us Bowermans/Bourmans. I have found the comments on this page to be very helpful.
God Bless you all,
Matthew Bowerman
Hello!
I’ve been slowly moving toward plain/modest dress for awhile now, although i’ve never been particulary flashy (i.e., I’ve never worn skirts above the knee or anything low cut). I’m a Christian but not officially Quaker, largely because there are no groups close by. I attend the Methodist church I was raised attending. I love its open-minded, accepting, peace-loving structure of beliefs.
That said, I feel drawn to Plain Dress for a reason I’d like an opinion on. Because of my spirituality, I see it as a way to retreat from an ever more aggressive, intruding world. I’m married and i am not a prude with my husband, but lately I feel like he’s the only person who should see my legs or other parts of me. Also, I feel so out of touch with so much around me that I feel like I want to put a barrier between my body and the world. I’m drawn toward wearing simple, floor-length skirts and dresses, plain blouses that cover my elbows.
Does anyone have feedback, ever felt something similar, have any recommendations for transitioning to so modest/plain a style? FWIW, I am a technical writer who lives and works in California. The people I work with will accept me no matter what, but most will not “get it.”
Thanks in advance,
Karen
I am a Plain Quaker. It sems to me that too many are worried about the “appearance” of being “plain” on the outside to show the world how much you abhor the greed and excess. Take more time to look inside, and be a plain person from the inside out. Don’t worry about how you look, but lead by example about how you live.
It seems to me that a lot of people are misunderstanding the leadings of others. The decision for an individual to dress plainly, in this context, is not entirely theirs. Many of the comments express concern that those wearing plain dress are overly concerned with outward appearance. Taking a few hours to pick 3 outfits to be worn until they can no longer be worn is indeed a good way to save time that might otherwise have been spent shopping over the years. What’s more, the few hours taken to pick out those 3 outfits leaves plenty of time for inner plainness. In early Quaker practice some clothing was seen as an encumbrance. Today, a Quaker is responsible for choosing his/her clothing with spiritual guidance based on the things that they experience as being encumbrances in their lives. This will free an individual to become more spiritually connected and allow them to better lead by example.
I have lived my life in a secular environment. My best friend passed away last year. He was against materialism. It was his personal philosopy, not tied to a religion. He believed in God. He had been ill for years. He was too proud to take aid. In his final years he died in poverty and homeless.
For years I have neither worn a belt and rarely a tie. It was the way I was most comfortable dressing.
Recently I decided it made no sense to buy pants with belt loops. The only place I could find the style I wanted was re-enactment community and people that dressed plain.
After living with and working with the homeless and recent events in world events I am taking a pacifist leaning in my thoughts. I am a bit shocked that people have no problem buying from companies they know use child labor or slave labor for the sake of fashion.
I believe family business and cottage industry is more honest and virtuous form of business structure. Corporate structures think nothing of putting people in harms way or making decisions that they know will harm children and seniors.
In my search for clothing that suited my tastes I realized that even though I could get clothing that suited my needs from re-enactors I did not wish to glorify wars. Past or present. I have been drawn more and more to those that dress plain. This does sometimes draw attention to myself. I am not really comfortable with this. So yes, plain dress can draw as much attention to a person as dress that is not modest. I think dressing outside of any of society’s “norms” whatever they may be will bring the risk of attention. It may or may not be wanted. I think that is the key. Is the style of dress reflecting a love of God and your fellow man?
I am not trying to be plain, Amish, Mennonite, Quaker, Shaker or anything else. I am trying to be me. I have found these clothes wear well, seem good for most occasions, are comfortable, and make a statement of MY personal beliefs. I know an adult made them and was paid a fair compensation and paid taxes into his or her community and supported the youth of their community.
In studying the ways of these groups I have learned volumes. They are not plain and simple. The technology is sophisticated and ingenious. It serves a purpose and is in general in balance with nature and society.
I always try not to wear all plain clothes because I am not of that community. If I wear a few selected items I feel I am making a statement of thanks. It is a salute to them and the contribution they make to our community and our conscience. To wear all plain clothing I feel I may offend someone I admire very much. I don’t wish to do that or make them think I am mocking them.
More and more I am slowly learning to make and repair my own. I am becoming more self sufficient by a study of these methods. If we rely more on ourselves and our community there is less chance of conflict. Especially when we enter into trade with cultures that are different than ours that are hard to understand.
Possibly I am just growing older. When I see young men and women in the latest fashions followed by men and women that dress plain, somehow the latter group looks much better. It is better to carry your riches in your heart than on your clothing.
With respect
Steve Nabazas
I would love to wear plain long dresses. And I understand the importance of being modest. I try to be modest wearing the longest skirts I have with me to church. They are not ankle length but they are not too short like those fancy skirts most kids wear now.They are about kneel length. Do you know wear I could get some dressses or skirts that are about to my feet? rebekah_28@hotmail.com
I have, I think, THE MOST respect for Quakers and Mennonites because of their social justice work. We lived in the Republic of Panama for three years and AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, I will NEVER, EVER live anyplace without Quakers, Mennonites, Jesuits, and without a gay bar closer than 4.5 hours!
And I canNOT wrap my brain around a social justice person shopping at Wal-Mart. I know, I HAVE been known to actually SHOP at a WM but ONLY because of something that was a necessity and I had burned up more than 1/2 tank of gas searching for particular item. I even have a tshirt dress that says, “As a Xan, I oppose the labor practices of W‑M; I am here today because I could find it nowhere else and it is important that I get this item NOW.” Like when something plumbing wise breaks at 3AM and WM’s the only thing open and the bathroom and house are going to flood.… or the grandbaby has a fever and a tepid spongebath won’t keep it down and it’s not high enough to go to the doctor and the closest 24 Whatever RX is ten miles away and WM is 4 minutes.
I am not a Quaker ONLY because I love liturgy. And now we’re back in the US and in MS (Mississippi) where the only known and proclaimed Quakers are in Starkville and Oxford (both huge university towns) and no one will respond to my emails because even though I’m a priest, sometimes I really NEED a meeting.
I wear a LOT of plain dress because I find it beautiful. There are patterns. I can make them. And they fit. If my clothing is NOT plain dress specifically, then it’s pretty plain. I’ve always liked a simple look, not simple in a bad way, but simple in a good way. AND dressing plain and simple CHANGES one; especially if one is using a Quaker/Plain/Mennonite pattern. It does good stuff to me spiritually, so that making clothing becomes a sacred meditation, like making vestments. In fact I tweaked a plain pattern for my clerical dress with a collar. I LOVE fabulous fabric and every 3rd year, if I find something on supersale and fabulous, fabric-wise, I buy it and make another plain dress.
i never like plain dress ever coz it looks lonely and not attractive.
I consider plain dress to be dress that is aligned with the testimonies of simplicity and moderation. I buy as much of my clothing (and other household items) as I can from thrift stores. In that way, I am keeping an item that took physical, human and energy resources in circulation, rather than bringing another item into our already over-crowded world and using fresh resources to produce it. I buy simple, well made clothes which I then take care of so they will last even longer. A “plain” dress that costs $300 or was made in a sweat shop is not in keeping with my understanding of the testimonies.
I was in Chicago this summer and saw a group of Amish women and their children in plain dress. they came to me as modern women of today, the only difference are their clothes. I find their clothes attractive because it is simple and shows people that clothes are only a shell. I do not see it as a uniform but as a statement, something that Muslim women also choose here in the Netherlands, wearing a headscarf a major debate. I think it has little to do with religion but it has to do with tolerance compared with others groups.
I agree with those who say that outward appearance reflects what is inside. What we wear is always a message that we send to others, and it always effects in some way on how we are evaluated. Today’s fashion emphasizes sexuality, “boldness” and financial success. All these are things that I oppose. Instead, I wish my dress to proclaim that my values are different: dignity, love for wisdom, self-respect and importance of inner beauty.