I tried to post this as a comment on “this piece by James Riemermann”:http://feeds.quakerquaker.org/quaker?m=299 on the Nontheist Friends website but the site experienced a technical difficulty when I tried to submit it (hope it’s back up soon!). James describes his post as a “rant” about “conservative-leaning liberal Friends,” and one theme that got picked up in the comments was how he and others felt excluded by us (for that is a term I use to try to describe my spiritual condition). Rather than loose the comment I’ll just post it here.
Hi James and everyone,
Well, I think I was one of the first of the Quaker bloggers to talk about conservative-leaning liberal Quakers back in July 2003. I too am not sure it’s anything worth calling a “movement.”
I hear this feeling of being excluded but I’m not sure where that’s coming from. When James had a really wonderful, thought-provoking response to my “We’re All Ranters Now” piece, I asked him if I could “reprint” the comment as its own guest piece. It got a lot of attention, a lot of comments. I didn’t realize you were using nontheistfriends.org as a blog these days but “Robin M”:http://www.quakerquaker.org/contributors_robin_m/ of “What Canst Thou Say”:http://robinmsf.blogspot.com/ did and has added a link to your post from “QuakerQuaker.org”:www.quakerquaker.org, which again is a validation that yours is an important voice (I can pretty much guarantee that this is going to be one of the more followed links). You and everyone here are part of the family.
Yes, we have some disagreements. I don’t think Quakerism is simply made up of whoever makes it into the meetinghouse. I think we have a tradition that we’ve inherited. This consists of practices and values and ways of looking at the world. Much of that tradition comes from the gospel of Jesus and the epistles between the earliest Christian communities. Much of what might feel like neutral Quaker practice is a clear echo of that tradition, and that echo is what I talk about that in my blogs. I think it’s good to know where we’re coming from. That doesn’t mean we’re stuck there and we adapt it as our revelation changes (this attitude is why I’m a liberal Friend no matter how much I talk about Christ). These blog conversations are the ways we share our experiences, minister to and comfort one another.
That people hold different religious understandings and practices isn’t in itself inherently exclusionary. Diversity is good for us, right? There’s no one Quaker center. There’s mulitiple conversations happening in multiple languages, much of it gloriously overlapping on the electronic pathways of the internet. That’s wonderful, it shows a great vitality. The religious tradition that is Quakerism is not dead, not mothballed away in a living history museum somewhere. It’s alive, with its assumptions and boundaries constantly being revisited. That’s cool. If a particular post feels too carping, there’s always the “eldering of the back button,” as I like to call it. Let’s try to hear each other from where we are and to remain open to the ministry from those who might appear to be coming from a different place. Love is the first movement and love is unconditional and accepts us for who we are.
I better stop this before I get too mushy, with all this talk of love! See what I mean about being a liberal Quaker?
Your Friend, Martin
I’ll start off the first comment by noticing how nicely this dovetales with my denunciation of Liz Phair as the “spawn of the devil”:http://www.nonviolence.org/martink/liz_phair_is_the_spawn_of_the_devil.php this morning. Okay okay, maybe I need to unconditionally love her despite the horrible songs that are both intensely catchy and intensely cloying!
I thought this post was both well conceived and well written. I find it compelling and helpful.
My only reservation is not with the position expressed here, but with the term “unconditional love.”
There was a time, more than ten years ago, that I readily accepted there must be something to this idea of “unconditional love.”
With the passage of time, now I suspect is it really a contradiction in terms. I reject it as harmful to the concept of love.
Martin, I’m sorry the nontheist friends site was down when you originally tried to reply. I recently responded here:
http://www.nontheistfriends.org/Home/p2000_articleid/10
Interesting to hear about Liz Phair. Her first record “Exile in Guyville” still knocks me out: fearless, lacerating, vulnerable, poetic. I haven’t heard any of her more recent stuff, but it amazed me to hear it described as silly trashy sex-kitten pop. I can’t help thinking she means this phase as a joke so ironic I can’t understand it.